Switzerland is a small but an extraordinary country that has
largely tamed official profligacy and has succeeded in instilling a rare
sense of accountability in its leaders and people, says Hans-Rudolf
Hodel, the country’s ambassador to Nigeria. As a diplomat, Mr. Hodel is
only allowed to fly economy class, not business or first class, much
more a chartered or private jet commonly used by Nigerian elites. There
are only two presidential jets used only when a large number of
officials travel.
Mr. Hodel spoke to PREMIUM TIMES’ editors in Abuja in August about his country and its administration, Nigeria, corruption, Abacha’s loot, and more. Excepts:
PT: Switzerland like Nigeria is also a Federal state, but
your country appears to have been able to manage its diversity
successfully?
Ambassador: This is a subject I like to talk about very much because
our federalism is really a success story. There are different types of
federalism even in Europe, but for me the main difference between states
or nations like ours, where the federalism comes from bottom up and
states where federalism is decided by the central government….
Our nation was founded more than 700 years ago when people from three
different regions- what we call Cantons- decided that they want to
become independent and they threw out the Habsburg, the famous family
which led to the founding of Austria and the huge success led to a huge
empire. In present day Switzerland, there is a Castle called Habsburg.
The Castle of Habsburg is in Switzerland. The last war against them was
in 1315 when they had to disappear for good.
I had to explain this because it shows that people came together and
decided that “we are stronger together”, it should not be every valley
for itself and it’s better to do things together. For centuries, this
remained our national idea. Hundred years ago that Switzerland was
created and we had for the first time, a Constitution and the basis of
that constitution is that all competences lie within the Cantons. We
have three levels of administration; the Federal, the Cantons, which is
like the states in Nigeria and what you call local governments, to us
the Communities. But the decisive thing is the Cantons.
The Cantons have sovereignty about everything; but they said if we
want to be able to defend ourselves against foreign powers, France,
Austria-which was very powerful too-, Italy and Germany, then we have to
do certain things together, and so like in every state, what will come
to mind is what will be regulated at Federal and not Cantonal level
which is Defence and foreign policy.
This was the competence that was given to the Central state.
But, of course, modern development does not allow you to do too many
things at the local level and that is why more and more competences went
to the Federal state. Nowadays, our Federal Constitution says all
competences come to the centre if the cantons agree with that. Don’t
forget that each canton also has its own constitution.
So, many competences are shared; for instance under Education, we
have two Federal Universities; but all lower level schools and most
universities are at cantonal levels. Police used to be at the Cantonal
levels, but the bigger cities also had Police, at the moment, we have
only Cantonal police; we have no federal police. We have a small unit at
the Ministry of Justice called Federal police, but that is just for
International Relations or some crimes involving explosives, but they
have no uniform, it is just for administration.
Health, also remains a Cantonal competence, we have no Federal
hospitals. Social Affairs is also a cantonal competence; that means that
not just that they have the authority, but also that many things are
not the same in all Cantons. Each Canton decides on its own how to
conduct its affairs. It’s just recently that we began to unify the
school year, which is now in autumn. Before, some cantons started in
spring, others in autumn. That was causing confusion for people
travelling or moving within Switzerland.
Some Cantons used to have seven years as mandatory school years, but
now all have nine years. So you see a tendency of having more and more
things go at a federal level.
This system is also a success because it is absolutely necessary that
finances go together with competencies. That means if you are in charge
of social security or health, you must also have the money to do it.
So, all our three levels have their own authority on taxes; When I live
in Switzerland, in a community like Bern, which is my home town, I pay
taxes on my income to the city of Bern, I also pay taxes to the Canton
of Bern and also pay to the confederation.
All these taxes are decided by the people themselves; that is a
guarantee that the tax are executed well, because if my cantonal
government in charge of the Cantonal University wants to improve it and
needs more money, they have to convince the population that this one is
needed and if they have to raise taxes for this reason, they will have
to convince them so that people will be willing to pay taxes. Imagine
how many countries in the world where people will agree to pay more
taxes; in Switzerland, they do.
At Cantonal level we have taxes on income and wealth, while at the
Federal level we have Value Added Tax, VAT. There is also income tax at
federal level, but no wealth tax at federal level. That in a few words
is how our federalism is working.
PT: In the light of what you just explained, how does your
country ensure that corruption does not set in whereby people in
authority corner what belongs to all citizens.
Ambassador: In Switzerland, people consider public wealth as their
own; so if I will use my government’s money to do private things, then I
will really have the impression that I am stealing from my fellow
citizens because I am also a tax payer. For instance, whenever I travel
for official duties, I fly economy because it’s my taxpayer’s money. I
can’t say oh! Now I have an opportunity to fly Business or even first
class because it is government money.
PT: As an ambassador, you fly economy? We believe Nigerian officials fly first class.
Ambassador: Oh yes, that is why I hardly meet them, I must fly
economy. The only exception is that when you are first appointed and
when you are going back, that is the first and last trips; you are
allowed to fly on Business.
PT: Other top officials use presidential jets?
Ambassador: No we have only two presidential jets and they use them
rarely. They are mostly used when a large government delegation is
travelling, like when the Minister recently came here to lead a
delegation to your government.
But, none of our Cantonal Governors fly official or private jets.
Perhaps it is due to the proximity between citizens and their elected
representatives. They walk in the street and take the trains to work
just like any other citizen. For instance if I take a train to work, I
may be in the same Wagon as the Member of Parliament representing my
constituency or even the Minister who also often travels to work by
train. That proximity favours a high degree of accountability as well.
Secondly, the fact that we don’t have any resources coming from the
extractive industry, we don’t have oil, we don’t have minerals, so that
“easy money” or that easy generated revenue, if I may say, is not there.
So, the wealth that is generated is through the work of the people and
the higher the value that the Swiss economy has become.
Therefore, that income that is generated is easily traceable when it is spent for public affairs.
That is a very strong point because cost of living is very high, what
costs a dollar in other countries, costs five dollars in Switzerland.
We have to earn this money, and so we have to be careful not to misuse
this money so that we don’t become poor again.
Switzerland, two hundred years ago, was a very poor country and many
citizens had to go abroad because there was not enough to eat in
Switzerland. We have to be better than others, or we cannot maintain our
level of living.
PT: I don’t know what you call leaders of your Cantons, here,
we call them governors. But my question is on the level of their
vehicle convoy?
Ambassador: Never! Our system of government is the same at both
federal and cantonal levels. What we have is the Ministers coming
together to form a government. There is not a President. For instance,
our Head of State formally are the seven Ministers called the Federal
Council. One of the seven persons is the president, but he is just a
primus Inter Pares, he just presides over the Council of the Ministers
once a week, one is vice president, and after one year, the Vice becomes
the President, and the former president becomes a regular member. This
is the same at Cantonal level. The Swiss do not like outstanding
personalities who dominate the office.
On vehicle convoys, there was once a big scandal, it was in all
papers because the wife of the president used her husband’s official car
for shopping. Our Ministers have one official car, with a regular local
registration plates, and he has one driver, so that he can work in the
car, but there is no police car either in front or at the back.
Sometimes, the Ministers use the train, I remember one time I was
coming back for holidays from St. Gallen to Bern as a student and I saw
the Minister of Finance asking one employee of the Federal Railways when
the next train going to Bern is leaving, and this fellow did not know
that he was talking to the Minister of Finance, and we ended up taking
the same Wagon with the Minister, I was seated right opposite him.
There is no reserve compartment for any top government official or
police escort in the train for anyone. They don’t have to hide or fear
anything from the population because they are doing the job that the
population wants them to do.
PT: Was it a shock to you when you saw how our government officials generally move about and conduct their affairs?
Ambassador: No! I have served in many countries in the world, and
what obtains here is basically what happens everywhere. People are
actually shocked when they go to Switzerland, because the Swiss is the
exception, not you.
PT: So even here you have only one official car?
Ambassador: Yes, but it is a bullet proof car, because my government
has decided that in some special countries, we should have bullet proof
cars for the ambassador, but they belong to the government. But I have a
private car which is normally used by my wife. But when I am in another
country, we always use private cars, we don’t have official cars. I buy
the car I use with my own money, and whenever I am leaving I can decide
to sell it or do whatever I like with it.
That is because I have a small allowance in my salary as part of
transport. It is my decision to either go by taxi or train. The only
privileged I have as an ambassador is that I normally have a driver.
PT: I know diplomats hardly talk about their areas of
assignment, but without sounding as if you are interfering into Nigerian
affairs, are you in a position to advise Nigeria on how best to curb
this perception about corruption using your experience in your country?
Ambassador: A foreign ambassador is not here to give advice to his
host country; we are not allowed to speak about Nigerian politics and
similar affairs. I can explain how we do it in our country without
saying it is a model for the world. I find it ok for Switzerland. But
Nigerians must organise their country as they think is best for them;
whether it is the government that should do that or the population. It
is up to Nigerians to decide what is best for you, what I have to do is
my job and have to adapt to the local conditions.
I think one of our added values is that because we don’t have 350-400
languages, we don’t have 170 million people; we have only four official
languages and a population of 8 million. But at our own level we have
that high degree of diversity within our country as well; religious
diversity, language diversity, dialect and cultural diversity with the
Italians, Germans, French and Romans.
So there are similarities between Switzerland and Nigeria, albeit on
different proportions. So what we can do as an embassy rather than to
come and give advice is to provide platforms of interaction between our
two countries so that there can be a mutual type of learning,
understanding and then people are free to take whatever they want back
to their own country to say for instance this and this is a good idea,
let us try and see how we can implement them.
To add to your previous question, I think a lot boils down to
education as well. The way Swiss people are educated promotes an element
of modesty in the system. We don’t go for people who stand out, that is
why we have so many famous persons, Michael Schumacher and many others
who have houses in Switzerland because people leave them alone.
If they go to other countries for instance and go to the shop, there
will be a crowd around them, but Schumacher for instance before he got
his accident can walk to the village bakery and buy his bread without
anyone disturbing him.
That is a bit of the education that we have. For instance, we fly
economy because I will surely feel a level of guilt to fly business for a
flight that cost $5000 in business and $1000 in economy. The thing is
what value can that $4000 difference add to my country, and that has
always been the guiding principle.
If I am CEO of a very large private company, that is ok, but as a
public servant, a government official, it is not possible. That is the
kind of mindset that we have.
Interaction is very important. I am very appreciative of this
exchange we are having, especially with a medium like yours. I am really
impressed by the work you do here, I have you as a favourite news
source on my Ipad. These types of discussions is what will help so much,
not just to you but us as well, because that way we understand our host
country better.
Coming back to education, let me add that we all went to public
school, our best schools are the public schools; private schools are for
those students who are not bright enough to go to high school without
additional teaching. For students who are not bright enough and their
parents have to take them to private schools for more teaching time so
that they can be able to meet up with the required standard to get to
the next level. I attended public schools up to my PhD Degree.
One thing also is that it’s people like you that have that
transformative power. When we read your investigative pieces which
facilitated our meeting with Tobore (Premium Times reporter) for
instance, going through that investigative process which brought that
story out, this touches the imagination of people well beyond Nigerian
borders as well. So, I think it is through such independent-minded
mediums, individuals that genuinely have the good of the nation and the
good of the Nigerian people at heart that can expose abuses and
corruption and also hold the leaders accountable. That is what is going
to change Nigeria, if Nigerians want. It is very important for us to
show support to people that have the good of their nation at heart.
PT: How much of Abacha loot has been returned to the country?
You also said you don’t have oil and yours is a small country; do we
benefit from trade relations with you?
Ambassador: Wherever I go in Nigeria, whoever I meet and who is a
little bit linked to Media, we can discuss football, we can discuss art,
handcraft, but every discussion we had, all lead to the Abacha
question. This appears to be the real question and my answer is
standard. In 2007 the Swiss government gave back 700 million Swiss
Francs through bilateral agreement because we wanted to make sure the
money does not disappear again.
So we had an agreement between Nigeria, the World Bank and
Switzerland. The World Bank was guaranteeing that the money was used for
the good of the people and that is it, all money is given back.
Sometimes people mix up things. There was discussion about a son of
Abacha who apparently lived in Europe; but the 700 million Swiss franc
which is about $800 million Abacha money has been given back seven years
ago.
On trade relation, it is mostly in favour of Nigeria. It is about
$600 million export value from Nigeria, while we export about $220
million. We export mostly chemicals, pharmaceuticals and machinery.
For Nigeria, it’s sad to say, it is 100% oil and it is a pity because
I travel a lot in Nigeria. In less than two years I have been to 27
states and I see that you have huge agricultural potential.
Unfortunately, wherever I go, I see all these people trading on the
road. Nigerians have the tendency to like trade and not that much for
production. So, the potential that Nigeria has is not yet fully used
such that the export structure of Nigeria is also reflecting that and,
especially with Switzerland, it’s only oil. In that sense, Nigeria
profits from our trade relations.
PT: You talked about oil, a lot of the commodity trades are
based in Switzerland, and I am sure you have been following reports in
the last two years about how the NNPC here has been largely colluding
with Swiss traders to basically rob Nigeria of its resources. What is
the Swiss Government doing about that?
Ambassador: About two to three years ago, we found out that there
should be a better control, but you know it is difficult. The activities
of some of these companies are not very transparent, some are based in
Geneva but most are in foreign hands.
Switzerland is trying to convince these companies to certain rules
that we are developing with other countries. There are also private
initiatives such as the famous voluntary principles for instance; we
have always tried to convince not only traders in Switzerland, but have
also tried to convince Nigeria to join such initiatives.
Netherlands, UK are also active. The goal is to force them to have
more transparency and to respect the rules in the countries where they
are active. These rules are not just economic, but also involve human
rights, including the rights of the workers, and that is what we can do.
We cannot interfere directly in their day-to-day businesses because our
economic system is that companies have to behave and obey the rules.
A lot of these issues that have now come out between the NNPC and
Swiss-based companies were actually revealed by a Swiss civil society,
which is also a testimony of the accountability monitoring and
investigation of Swiss citizens and civil society. The government is
very aware this represents a challenge for our image, so we are working
closely with both the civil society and the private sector to try and
address this.
One of the challenges is by enforcing rules and regulations, while
legislating. It is difficult to do so if there is no international
consensus and harmonisation on similar types of legislations and rules
and regulations.
If Switzerland, whose economy is significantly dependent on a number
of these major multinational companies, both for taxes and employment;
Switzerland has become a hub; and if such legislations are imposed in
Switzerland, it is easy for some of these companies to move out and go
to either London, Singapore or wherever and to keep doing what exactly
they have been doing, and then at the end of the day, we have put
ourselves off site. So, a lot of what is being done now is to work
together at multi-lateral level in order to harmonise some of these
rules and regulations. There is a lot of bi-lateral agreement between
the Swiss government and a lot of these multinational companies to work
jointly on increasing the standards and respect for human rights and
security in the conduct of their operations, making sure that whatever
is decided at the headquarters is felt throughout subsidiaries that are
operating on the ground especially in fragile countries.
So, there is a whole number of initiatives that Switzerland is
spearheading. Of course one of them is the voluntary principle on human
rights and security and another one is called the International Code of
Conduct for private security companies and many others, but within our
banking system and other companies that are operating in Switzerland.
As part of these initiatives, issues such as the Abacha case cannot
come up again because we now have the Right Money Strategy programme in
banks, which stipulate that the real owner of the money is always known;
and the banking secrecy at the international level does not exist
anymore. The idea was helpful for the development of the banks, but now
we have seen that it aids criminals. The idea of the banking secrecy
which still operates at the national level says that the authorities
have no right to interfere in the affairs of the people. Authorities can
only do so if one is seen to be spending may be 100% more than he earns
and there is suspicion that he might be involved in criminal matters.
That is just for people living in Switzerland, but at the international
level, it doesn’t work like this, there is no banking secrecy anymore.
PT: Still on the Abacha thing, when you entered into an
agreement with the World Bank and the Nigerian Government, are you aware
then how the money was spent?
Ambassador: Yes, we have seen the report; what I can say is that it
was not possible to do that in the sense of a project work. It was for
financial regulation in Nigeria which was of course the responsibility
of Nigeria. It was entrenched into the official budget of the Nigerian
government. But the World Bank then checks in the field. For instance,
where there is no university and one is set up there through the
provision of schools, so we can say indirectly that this money helps in
the building of schools which otherwise the Federal government would not
have built.
There was a report, I have seen it once. I have not read it, it is
rather thick. It was plausible we wanted to do a good job with the
Nigerian government and there was cooperation because the situation was
such that there was illegal money in Switzerland, but there was no
government to claim it. This case cannot happen again.
A lot has also been achieved in terms of transparency and being
reactive to situations. For instance, Switzerland was the first country
to block the funds of former Tunisian president Ben Ali and Egyptian
president Mubarak as well. There are serious efforts of legal and mutual
assistance between the two governments now to return this money.
Sometimes it is difficult because when you are talking about
countries in transition like in Egypt, where you have the election of
Morsi and he is thrown out and a new one comes, so it becomes difficult
to sustain a process of mutual legal assistance and a transparent
process of returning money. Who do you return it to? Sometimes, a lot of
efforts is also done to carry out paper work and often takes time and
it is sometimes interpreted to mean Switzerland wanted to keep the
money, which is absolutely always not the case.
Also there is a limit to how long the Swiss government will continue
to block the money. For instance, if the government blocks a money on
suspicion of being a proceed of crime, it will only be for some time. If
the Nigerian government does not approach us to say such money was
stolen from us, please help us to recover it; if Nigeria doesn’t do
anything about it after three months, we have to give access to the
account back to the owner; even if we know it was stolen. In the eyes of
the law, it is the property of a civil person.
